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Post by gkjsooley on Apr 18, 2004 20:35:20 GMT 1
From the Salt Lake Tribune, Sept. 23, 2003
Vail Saab Story: Cops must drive Fords
By Robert Weller The Associated Press
DENVER -- After a quarter-century, Vail police are giving up their trademark Saab patrol cars in favor of cheaper Ford Explorers. The nation's most popular ski resort and the Swedish car company, which sold to Vail at a loss, say they can't afford to continue the deal that had benefits for both. "Saabs were good for the town image. Our visitors would stop and have their pictures taken in front of the cop cars," said Suzanne Silverthorn, spokeswoman for the mountain town 90 miles west of Denver. For its part, Saab says it has been losing money providing cars to Vail and Aspen. "If you add up our losses through the years, it was millions of dollars that we have donated to the Aspen and Vail police departments," spokesman Kevin Smith said Monday. "We were happy to do it. It was great exposure for us." However, Smith said that Saab, like Vail, has had to tighten its belt during the economic decline. Aspen police Chief Loren Ryerson would only say: "We are still negotiating for our next year's contract." After Saab proposed raising monthly lease prices from $319 to $350 a vehicle, Vail officials talked with BMW and Land Rover before choosing the four-wheel-drive Explorer. Each of the seven Fords will cost nearly $6,000 less than a Saab over the term of a five-year lease, Vail said. "Town council members were disappointed to see us going to a more generic vehicle for Vail," Silverthorn said. She said the town had been criticized for using Saabs by people who didn't know Vail was getting them below cost. Rusty Jacobs has been driving Saabs since he became a Vail policeman 13 years ago. "Most people thought it was cool to see us in Saabs. It was an icebreaker that it made it easier for them to approach us," he said.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 18, 2004 21:36:35 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
I think that during the 1980's, the CHP (California Highway Patrol) tested some of the Volvos,but that was not approved by them. Meanwhile,Chevrolet sticked their Celebrity at their throats,but the CHP only got a handful of these and got rid of them equally as fast.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 18, 2004 21:40:48 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
About the Saabs in Colorado,the story goes that at the end of the 1970's, the Plymouth Police Cars were unable to handle Colorado's snowy conditions; hence the choice of Saabs. It is interesting that this town did not choose a GM; after,Saab is part of GM now. Then again, Ford has the majority at the police fleets.................
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skunk
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Post by skunk on Apr 18, 2004 22:16:35 GMT 1
This Saab/Vail story just goes to show how bad it is for a small company to be purchased by GM. I would think that using Saabs as copcars in Vail could be very good for advertising, especially in combination with other GM products (off-roaders or whatever it is they might need).
Poor Saab... Look at what happened to the companies that were bought by Ford; Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo have all been given huge resources to take advantage of the companies' specialist knowledge. Meanwhile Saab is suffering a slow death. Throwing "Saab" badges on Chevy Trailblazers and Subaru Imprezas is not going to do to much to halt this downward slide, to which any student of British Leyland can testify...
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BillC
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Post by BillC on Apr 19, 2004 6:01:20 GMT 1
First, to answer an earlier question about Volvo. Yes, Volvo did have an active police vehicle program both in Canada and the U.S. The California Highway Patrol, Arizona Department of Public Safety and Oklahoma Highway Patrol, used the S70 at least as evaluation units. I have heard the CHP decided they were sufficiently cost-effective to justify their higher initial price and had planned to add them to the regular fleet when Ford cancelled the Volvo police program. I have seen other sources that said the CHP had decided against them. Either way, Ford ended the program and that was that. Incidentally, other vehicles considered for the new, smaller patrol car included BMWs.
The RCMP and a number of Canadian metropolitan agencies, especially in Quebec, used both the 70-series sedan and wagon.
I do know that other Volvos, including the 240, have been used as police cars in the U.S. Some years ago, several small, but well-heeled, Texas cities were using Volvo sedans as patrol cars. Bellaire, a small city within Houston, had a fleet of 240DLs.
What strikes me as odd about the "Saab story" told by GM and Vail is that the money is trivial: not to the city, but to GM.
Based on the report, we're talking a difference of $31 per car, per month. That's a total of $13,020 for Vail's seven cars over five years. The total cost of the cars over five years is $147,000 or $29,400 per year.
GM had 2003 revenues of $185.5 billion and income of $3.8 billion and they can't afford such a trivial sum? Or do something creative like work an advertising deal with the departments? And where did that figure of millions of dollars come from? The retail price of a new Saab 9-5 is about $32,000-$40,000. Assuming seven cars every five years, the total outlay would have been $1,120,000-$1,400,000 over 25 years if GM had given Vail the cars. Something doesn't add up.
Nope, sounds more to me like GM wants to get Saab out of the cop car biz, perhaps hoping Vail would switch to Impalas or Tahoes.
Another thing that bothers me is the choice of Ford Explorers. In the 2003 Michigan State Police tests, the Explorer is offered as a special service vehicle NOT SUITABLE FOR HIGH-SPEED, PURSUIT OR EMERGENCY DRIVING (the Michigan State Police's exact words, based on the manufacturer's recommendations).
In a recent kidnapping in Oklahoma, a highway patrolman driving a Chevrolet Tahoe spotted the kidnapper's car and gave chase. The kidnapper, who was driving a Lexus, ran away from the Tahoe with no problem. The kidnapped woman was lucky that the Oklahoma Highway Patrol had an old B4C Camaro nearby that could keep up with the Lexus and make the stop. (Note to Nick: One of those 1969 Dodge Polaras would have been handy, too.)
A Ford Explorer has a 0-60 time of 8.9 seconds and a top speed of 107 (electronically limited). And that's the two-wheel drive version without roof lights, spotlights or any typical police equipment. The 4WD is slower. The Ford has the highest top speed of any of the special service vehicles. Neither one of the GM special service packages can even reach 100 mph.
You're going to have a lot of rich kids laughing at the cops in Vail as they show them their taillights disappearing in the distance. And let's hope for no kidnappers with a Lexus; their victims will be out of luck. Even a RX330 will outrun the Explorer. Let's hope the Colorado State Patrol still has a Camaro to station near Vail.
Fuel consumption is going to go up, as well. The Explorer gets 15 mpg in city driving compared to 22 mpg for the Saab 9-5. Not good at a time when gasoline prices are at record levels in the U.S. A big hunk of that $6000 savings Vail was talking about is going to disappear right down their Explorers' fuel filler lines.
If I were a Vail citizen, I would have been asking some very pointed questions at the town council meetings. Even if GM insisted on being squirrelly with the Saabs, I'll bet Volkswagen would have been happy to work a nice deal for some 4Motion Passats.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 19, 2004 7:48:46 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
One of the reports that I heard about the Police car Tahoe is the fact that,despite the police package,it still rides like a truck and may apply to the same observations as the Explorer. In all, at the police package, GM is all to agressive to promote its new Impala and they were sarcastic at the agencies who choosed the Vic. It reminds the 1980's, when they were all the anxious to have their Celebrities active at the CHP- but that did not lasted that long. And this is curious that the final generation Caprice almost reached the Polara's performance before it got dropped by GM. It seems to me that GM is squeaky with the Saab because it wants the promote its Impala ( do not forget: this company-GM- is quite agressive promoting their fwd vehicles; with Chrysler's releases of their new rwd sedans,things are pointing towars the other way now) and Tahoe and up to now, police agencies are showing that 'when the Vic is avaliable.we will take it'. Perhaps,just perhaps, since the Vic has a very improved handling as compared with ist 1997 model, it could be used in Vail. Or not. Ford,on the other hand,is promoting their Vic. By 1997, -when the Vic was by itself at the police market- the Taurus police package was dropped as well, and that was considered a good performer; same thing was said about the Lumina package, and guess what the new Impala is! The most I look at the new Chrysler 300 the most I see the their police package of the 1970's. I truly hope that they come back and fix their braking problems. With a hemi, they will be able to outchase any Lexus. Mercedes-Benz suspensions systems were proven on all kinds of terrains; problem is,these are considered too complex to the average mechanic. If these are adapted to the new Chryslers, then they will have another winner at their hands. Remember again: Ford was the most time at the police market,but Chrysler defined it. I do not know much about BMW,Volvo or VW police packages. The BMW, with is 160 mph top speed reminds me of the Polara,but the former is a smaller unit. In the end,at the case of Saab, it is a question of internal corporation battles, and GM is quite famous on these. I would pick up one their Caprice units at any time and the CHP, who disposed of their cars on a five year or so basis-and earlier for the ones that they did not like,such as the St. Regis and Celebrity- was one of the agencies who refurbished their Caprice units. That may tell you something. I mentioned that before: Holden-or Australian GM Holden- have a Caprice model; it is a mid sized vehicle,rwd, and it is a police favorite on several countries outside Australia. By the way: these are sold as Chevrolets abroad.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 20, 2004 3:50:50 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
On the issue of the CHP, the only Mercury that was used by them the 1970 Monterey. It came below expectations. An Oldsmobile Delmont 88 was picked for 1967. These can be considered the rarest police units around.
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BillC
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Post by BillC on Apr 20, 2004 4:05:43 GMT 1
When Chevrolet introduced the new Impala, they promised a V8-powered version within a couple of years. Betting in the industry was that GM was going to rebadge Australian Holden Commodores (these are the cars being rebaged as Chevys in the Middle East) for a special police-only package to compete with the big, V8-powered, RWD Ford.
Unfortunately, the concept quickly ran into trouble as GM did not plan to build the cars in North America (none of the cars offered to U.S. police agencies are built in the United States; they are all assembled in Canada) and they were worried union members might get upset. This is why the only Holden coming to the U.S. is the Monaro, which is the new Pontiac GTO.
Be that as it may, I still think GM was playing fast and loose with the numbers and I know the Vail government could have made a better choice for a primary enforcement vehicle than one of the special service SUVs.
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BillC
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Post by BillC on Apr 20, 2004 5:49:21 GMT 1
Dear Sirs: On the issue of the CHP, the only Mercury that was used by them the 1970 Monterey. It came below expectations. An Oldsmobile Delmont 88 was picked for 1967. These can be considered the rarest police units around. Mercurys were also used in the 1950s. In 1956, the Mercury Custom was one of the CHP's standard cars (the CHP had used Ford Mainliners in the early 50s). In 1957 and 1958, the CHP used Mercury Montereys along with the Dodge Coronets. I have seen sources that say the CHP used Mercury Turnpike Cruisers, but those were special high-end models based on the show car. Incidentally, 1970 was a good year for Mercury in California. The Los Angeles Police Department bought Mercury Montegos.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 20, 2004 12:03:52 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
There is a story with the LAPD's Montegos: all of these,except one did not had power steering. And,of course,the cops would like most the one with power steering. The way I understand, that vehicle came with that feature by mistake.
There was a time when the LAPD patrolled the freeways aound the Los Angeles area before the CHP took over. As I understand, Oldsmobile cruisers were used for that job.
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BillC
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Post by BillC on Apr 21, 2004 4:44:12 GMT 1
When LAPD handled enforcement on area highways, the department bought fleets of two different cars in most years. One, the patrol unit, was usually a Ford or Mopar (Plymouth with some Dodges), the other a GM premium brand, Oldsmobile or Pontiac, designated as a pursuit car.
The practice ended in the 1960s.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 27, 2004 6:30:46 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
I would love to see the former Olds and Pontiac Police enforcers from LAPD. Anyway.
On this Greek Movie, I remenber seeing Pllymouth Valiants as Police units. These should been a sight at the streets of Athens...............
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BillC
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Post by BillC on Apr 28, 2004 14:02:38 GMT 1
When I was in Switzerland in the mid-1960s, the Kantonspolizei had a late-model green Chevrolet Suburban with blue and amber Federal Beacon Ray warning lights. The only regular patrol cars I ever saw were Peugeot 403 sedans with the standard European blue beacon.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on May 1, 2004 5:22:55 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
In Switzerland. the Mowag Vehicle company been using Chrysler trucks from at least the 1960's. I think their specialty are fire vehicles, however.
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BillC
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Post by BillC on May 3, 2004 6:27:54 GMT 1
Dodge B-Series van conversions have been relatively common fire trucks in Switzerland for some time. The fire brigade in the small town in which I worked had one (this was years later, though).
Of course, now that the B-Series van is history, they will have to find something else. Ford E-Series perhaps?
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