|
Post by cfesmire on May 2, 2004 1:23:32 GMT 1
It comes to my attention that in the year 1910, there were no less than 209 automobile manufacturers in existence. With all of that "fodder" out there, one would think there would be much more in the way of modelling for the era in any scale.
|
|
BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
|
Post by BillC on May 2, 2004 3:06:42 GMT 1
It comes to my attention that in the year 1910, there were no less than 209 automobile manufacturers in existence. With all of that "fodder" out there, one would think there would be much more in the way of modelling for the era in any scale. And with most of those 209 manufacturers, there are no worries about licensing! It's likely the reality is that these is not much of a market for mass-market models of these "fallen flags." Most were companies that produced relatively few vehicles before going bankrupt. That being said, there would still seem to be enough moderately successful companies, like Baker and Dort, to make a model worthwhile.
|
|
|
Post by cfesmire on May 2, 2004 19:59:27 GMT 1
I have some old Sat. Eve. Posts with terrific ads in them for old vehicles. I would love to see a '23 Rickenbacker. Several others with no need of licensing would be Jordan, Jewett, Kissel, Essex Franklin, Gray, Hudson, Maxwell, Paige, Peerless, Rollin, Packard and Velie. Along with a bunch of trucks as well like Pierce Arrow, Graham Bros., Federal-Knight and Overland (the Spad would be a terrific 1-87 subject) And would one need a license for a vehicle like the Marmon since the trucks still use the name? By the way, anyone interested in some of these old advertisements, contact me with the make and I'll see if I've scanned them in yet. Mostly 1923 &'24 however.
|
|
stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
|
Post by stanhas87 on May 3, 2004 0:20:46 GMT 1
Dear Chester:
I think that Hudson ( if is the same make that formed AMC) will require a licence from Chrysler; I already saw a toy described as a 'Chrysler (instead of Hudson) Hornet'. I think that Maxwell and Willys will have the same problem.
|
|
BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
|
Post by BillC on May 3, 2004 5:32:30 GMT 1
Several others with no need of licensing would be Jordan, Jewett, Kissel, Essex Franklin, Gray, Hudson, Maxwell, Paige, Peerless, Rollin, Packard and Velie. Along with a bunch of trucks as well like Pierce Arrow, Graham Bros., Federal-Knight and Overland (the Spad would be a terrific 1-87 subject) And would one need a license for a vehicle like the Marmon since the trucks still use the name? Believe it or not, Essex, Graham Bros., Hudson, Maxwell, Overland, Nash, Rambler, Willys and Knight are all predecessor brands of modern-day DaimlerChrysler. Packard merged with Studebaker, so I am not sure of the status of that trademark. REO is a trademark of Volvo Truck (REO was acquired by White in 1957. White was acquired by Volvo along with Autocar). The Marmon mark is still in active use. Some numbers to consider: Total U.S. vehicle production in 1900 was 4,192. At 1500 cars, Columbia was the only brand to produce more than 1000 cars. Locomobile was second with 750, followed by Winton at 100 and Packard at 49. Since the last Oldsmobile rolled off the line last Thursday, none of the top brands of 1900 are still in production. By 1902, total output was around 9,000 cars. Columbia was gone and Locomobile was the sales leader with 2,750 cars, followed by Oldsmobile at 2,500 and Rambler at 1,500. Among the new brands were Apperson, Baldner, Binney & Burnham Steam, Blomstrom, Brazier, Bristol, Centaur, Cloughley, Covert, Davenport Steam, Decker, Flint Steam, Franklin, Fredonia, Gaethmobile, General, Graham Motorette, Holsman, Ideal, Kunz, Model, Murray, Northern, Pomeroy, Rambler, Reber, Rockaway, Sandusky, Santos Dumont, Studebaker Electric, Toledo (gas), Tourist, Union, Upton, Walter, Wick (prototype only), Wildman and Yale. In 1903, 11,235 cars left the assembly line. Oldsmobile was the sales leader, followed by Henry Leland's Cadillac and Ford's original Model A. Of the 88 new car companies formed that year, only Ford and Cadillac survive today. By 1905, annual production had reached 24,250 and there were 77,988 cars registered in the U.S. or one car for every 1,075 people. Sales leaders were Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Rambler and Ford. None of the new car firms formed in 1905 are still in business, but an interesting new company was American Mercedes, a short-lived joint venture between Daimler Motor Works and Steinway Piano with a factory on New York's Long Island (Rolls-Royce cars were also built in the U.S. at one time). In 1909, the 290 American automakers combined to produce 123,990 cars and 3,297 trucks and buses. We would recognize most of the leading brands. Ford was way out front, with the new Model T, followed by Buick, which was now in the hands of W.C. Durant, who had used it to leverage the purchase of Cadillac, Oldsmobile and Oakland to found General Motors. Third place was Maxwell, followed by Studebaker, Cadillac, Reo, Oldsmobile and Willys-Overland. The the period from 1900 to 1909, the population of the U.S. grew from 76,094,000 to 90,490,000, thanks in part to the addition of Oklahoma and New Mexico as states in 1905. Ten years later, American manufacturers built 1,876,356 cars and trucks. The top four brands, Ford, Chevrolet, Buick and Dodge, accounted for 63% of all vehicle sales. By itself, Ford built over 820,000 vehicles, claiming over 43% of the total market. The average income in the U.S. was now more than the price of a new car, something that was not true in the first ten years of the 20th Century. In 1929, total vehicle production reached 5,327,087, a total that would not be surpassed until after World War II. The majority of Americans owned at least one automobile. In the period before the Great Depression, there were hundreds of car companies, most of which simply went bankrupt or disappeared without being merged with another car company. Many of these companies produced stunningly beautiful automobiles and any of them should be fair game for a license-free model, if you can find enough materials to use in the process. One car company that is often overlooked is Durant, the company W.C. Durant formed when he was tossed out of GM for the last time. It was quite successful for several years and produced at least three different cars. Both Durant and his company were wiped out by the great Depression.
|
|
BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
|
Post by BillC on May 3, 2004 5:38:35 GMT 1
Incidentally, if you chose to model 1909, you could get away with a fair number of Micron Art Model Ts and Jordan Oldsmobiles. Ford built over 17,000 Model Ts in that year (although none of them were black) and production of the "Merry Oldsmobile" Runabout had just ended in 1907 after a run of 11,000.
|
|
|
Post by Sylvain on May 3, 2004 7:58:39 GMT 1
There is also another brand, Marks Metallmodelclassic’s, with some European automobiles maybe useful if you plan a European diorama: one very nice Rolls Royce, a few Mercedes cars and buses, two Opels, as far as I know. Expensive though (around 40 euros for a car, a lot more for a bus).
The Alt-Berlin models can also be found under Anguplas brand. They’re rather crude but common on eBay, and not always very expensive.
Too bad there is no old Peugeot, De-Dion-Bouton or Panhard-Levassor available!
|
|
|
Post by Christian on May 3, 2004 12:34:34 GMT 1
|
|
BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
|
Post by BillC on May 3, 2004 12:53:50 GMT 1
A few of the Marks vehicles could even be used "as is" in an American scene. Wealthy Americans imported European cars for many years. Others could be modified to resemble American brands.
Now the trick is to find a source in the U.S.
|
|
|
Post by Sylvain on May 3, 2004 13:03:33 GMT 1
|
|
skunk
87thScale addict
5th B-day
Posts: 2,762
|
Post by skunk on May 3, 2004 17:50:01 GMT 1
Among the new brands were Apperson, Baldner, Binney & Burnham Steam, Blomstrom, Brazier, Bristol, Centaur, Cloughley, Covert, Davenport Steam, Decker, Flint Steam, Franklin, Fredonia, Gaethmobile, General, Graham Motorette, Holsman, Ideal, Kunz, Model, Murray, Northern, Pomeroy, Rambler, Reber, Rockaway, Sandusky, Santos Dumont, Studebaker Electric, Toledo (gas), Tourist, Union, Upton, Walter, Wick (prototype only), Wildman and Yale. Fredonia? Wasn't that the imaginary country in the Marx brothers movie "Duck Soup"? Groucho made an excellent dictator. There are quite a lot of European brands of 1900 still in existence. It seems that most of the American companies were enthusiast operations rather than existing large companies like Peugeot and Opel who then diversified into cars.
|
|
Lee
Senior Member
Posts: 1,899
|
Post by Lee on May 3, 2004 18:18:03 GMT 1
I think that you are trying to give me a heart attack!! Did you take a look at the prices The first one was $103.50 euros. I'll stick with Roskopf and Marklin, thank you. ;D
|
|
BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
|
Post by BillC on May 3, 2004 22:39:24 GMT 1
There are quite a lot of European brands of 1900 still in existence. It seems that most of the American companies were enthusiast operations rather than existing large companies like Peugeot and Opel who then diversified into cars. While I am not sure there was quite the proliferation that existed in turn-of-the-century America, Europe has its share of fallen flags. After all, there were plenty of machine shops and inventive blacksmiths in England, France, Germany and Italy. Although it seems like a lot of the European carmakers experimented with bicycles first. One thing that also help in America was Henry Ford's successful challenge to the Selden patent, which was ruled invalid in 1911. Before that, all car manufacturers had to pay a royalty to a clever patent attorney who patented the automobile without ever building one!
|
|
|
Post by cfesmire on May 4, 2004 0:57:10 GMT 1
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Henry Ford merely "go around" the Selden Patent by manufacturing an engine that was significantly different enough from the engine that the patent represented? It was his premier engine building that brought him to fame in the racing circuits later. And as a consequence, brought him much backing as well. As we discuss this era in automobile manufacturing, I'm reminded of the importance of this man. Testament today, by the sales of Ford vehicles a full 100 yrs. after Mr Ford cut the front of his garage apart to get his first little buggy out.
|
|
|
Post by Sylvain on May 4, 2004 1:12:11 GMT 1
While I am not sure there was quite the proliferation that existed in turn-of-the-century America… Quite. I’ve read somewhere that half of the 200 or so cars manufacturers in existence around 1900 were American. But in the same time, the American production for 1900 was about 4000 cars, when the production of French manufacturers the same year was already of more than 5000 automobiles. Ah, great years, when France was still the world largest producer of automobiles (only till 1904!). ;D About the Selden patent, I’ve also read somewhere that at first, in 1895, it was a legal try to limit importation of foreign cars on the American market (Panhard, Renault, Mercedes and Fiat have even allied themselves to fight against it, without any success). But the problem was that quickly the American manufacturers became even more annoyed by it. Lee, About the Marks models…yes, they are really very expensive, but why buying a Ford T for $44 (Micron-Art), when you can have a Rolls Royce Silver Ghost for only $4 more? ;D
|
|