stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Jul 6, 2004 4:46:38 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
Without the shadow of a doubt,this is one of the most known brands and this happened due to a very brilliant distribuition system and a very nice line up of products.some of them are very desirable. Their articles are molded on a multitude of scales, the majority being 1/43,1/55 and 1/64; 1/72 and 1/87 has a good amount of offerings as well. Worrysome is the fact that under Mattel it is becoming very silly at its core,the 1-75, but its collectable items are still very reasonably well represented.
It is a known fact: all kinds of people had a Matchbox toy before; it simple as that.
Comments,listings and other additions will be interesting to hear.
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BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
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Post by BillC on Jul 6, 2004 5:22:00 GMT 1
Under Mattel, the Matchbox models are supposed to be more realistic than the Hotwheels which, considering the latest distortions, isn't all that hard to do.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Jul 8, 2004 14:52:58 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
It is interesting to notice that two of the longest lived Matchbox models,one was a bus (either the Daimler Fleetliner or Leyland Olympian) and the Dodge Challenger. The latter was modified (details added) at least three times.
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Post by Sylvain on Aug 14, 2004 19:55:17 GMT 1
I’ve read somewhere once that’s at least one Matchbox American car of the sixties, was really on 1/87 scale. The others would be around 1/87 scale, but too big, like the 1959 Chevrolet Impala.
I think it was a Pontiac, but I’m not sure of what car it was. Does someone know what model it could be?
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Aug 14, 2004 20:47:34 GMT 1
Dear Sylvain:
On my literature (and two books of reference) the 39B,Pontiac Convertible.which was released in 1962,is stated as being 1/80 scale; its lenght was 70mms. The american vehicle,and car based that was on 1/87 was the number 54B,released on 1965,Cadillac S & S ambulance.Likewise,the Cadillac sixty special was 1/80 scale and the Ford Station wagons were 1/75 scale.
Nick K
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Post by Sylvain on Aug 14, 2004 21:49:02 GMT 1
Nick,
Thanks for your answer. So, I must be wrong somewhere. Too bad I didn’t kept this article. It was a list of some Matchbox models (especially American cars) at a scale around 1/87, and with their right scale indicated.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Aug 15, 2004 0:17:40 GMT 1
Dear Sylvain:
You reminded me from where your list came from: our site,under the model,not manufacturer section.In there,the Pontiac is listed as an 1/86 scale and the gentleman who supplied the list to our site I heard of him;he is from the Matchbox club.
Therefore,it comes to measurements.One has to find out the real Pontiac's lenght,and how this converts to the 70 mm figure.
Again,check our site under Model listings.
Nick K
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Post by cfesmire on Aug 25, 2004 22:57:03 GMT 1
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Mar 15, 2005 7:47:24 GMT 1
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Post by DavidJohnson on Mar 29, 2005 2:17:24 GMT 1
I’ve read somewhere once that’s at least one Matchbox American car of the sixties, was really on 1/87 scale. The others would be around 1/87 scale, but too big, like the 1959 Chevrolet Impala. I think it was a Pontiac, but I’m not sure of what car it was. Does someone know what model it could be? Sylvain, I found your question from some time ago, and as you do not have a 1960 Pontiac on your photo site I will assume that you are uncertain whether it is worth the hunt and expense on eBay. If you like the prototype, it is worth the hunt especially if you can find a play worn example. Mine came in a lot of 4 which also included a useable truck model for under $15. The Matchbox Pontiac convertible is 1/87, or if not exact scale it is at worst 1/86. ( CORRECTION 1/85 see followup posts) Here is a photo taken next to the Praline 1959 Cadillac. The roof on the Caddy fits exactly onto the Pontiac. The folded convertible top will need to be filed off, and wheels replaced. That is all. I flipped the baseplate over to better align existing axle holes for the ride height I wanted. I think the toughest visual test of scale is a frontal view of similar models side by side, and in my opinion there is no visual difference between the two models. pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/autorail87/detail?.dir=8203&.dnm=fd32.jpgThe roof on my Pontiac was scratchbuilt many years ago from brass, without good photo reference. As a result it extends a little too far toward the back of the car. With the Cadillac roof test fit onto the newly aquired Pontiac it looked oh-so-right. I made a quick decision to glue it onto the Caddy. happy hunting
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Mar 29, 2005 7:06:12 GMT 1
Dear Sylvain: On my literature (and two books of reference) the 39B,Pontiac Convertible.which was released in 1962,is stated as being 1/80 scale; its lenght was 70mms. The american vehicle,and car based that was on 1/87 was the number 54B,released on 1965,Cadillac S & S ambulance.Likewise,the Cadillac sixty special was 1/80 scale and the Ford Station wagons were 1/75 scale. Dear David: As stated above,two books lists the Pontiac as 1/80 scale and it has a lenght of 70 mm. Christian Falkener,of Matchbox fame and who gave the scale listings on this site lists it at 1/86 scale. I was told that 70 mm is too long for 1/87 scal. I am trying to get one myself. The following books list it as an 1/80 scale model: catalogue of model cars of the world by Alzema published in 1967; Frank Thompson's catalogue of model cars (this gentleman published good literature on Matchbox). Now since you stated that is same size as the Busch 's Cadillac,I am very curious about it.Up to now,these command high prices on eBay,even as damaged. Nick K
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Post by DavidJohnson on Mar 30, 2005 3:18:21 GMT 1
Christian Falkener,of Matchbox fame and who gave the scale listings on this site lists it at 1/86 scale. And right Mr. Falkener is. As the Pontiac can end up being a relatively costly model, I thought it best to make some measurements. My conclusion is that the Matchbox Pontiac is either 1/86 or 1/85, depending on what dimension is considered. Here's the real thing. Specifications are on page 35 of the owners manual. A bit pixelated, I think I read the digits right. www.mrdos.com/1960Pontiac.htmBelow are dimension measured from the model compared to protoype dimensions from the owners manual. 1960 Catalina had the same dimensions as Ventura and Safari. Bonneville had the same dimensions as StarChief. All measurements are in inches, and I have calculated the scale of the Matchbox against each dimension. Wheelbase Scale vs. this dimension #39 Matchbox 1.44 Catalina 122 1/85 Bonneville 124 1/86 Overall Length #39 Matchbox 2.59 Catalina 213.7 1/83 Bonneville 220.7 1/85 Width #39 Matchbox 0.94 Catalina, Bonneville 80 1/85 Here is how the Matchbox Pontiac compares in dimension to other models. Measurements were made to 1/100 inch with a machinist ruler and squaring block. Wheelbase Matchbox Pontiac 1.44 Praline Cadillac 1.48 CMW 1961 Impala 1.35 Length (at bumpers) Matchbox Pontiac 2.59 (65.8mm without tow hook Praline Cadillac 2.65 CMW 1961 Impala 2.38 Body Width Matchbox Pontiac 0.94 Praline Cadillac 0.94 CMW 1961 Impala 0.88 Overall the proportions of the Matchbox Pontiac convertible are consistant with the Bonneville/Star Chief. Grille and bumpers are nicely formed. It does have the raised wire outlines for doors, hood, and rear deck. Appearance as a scale model will depend on how it is modified, and what it is next to. As a toy the ride height is too high. For my model the ride height is low, which helps disquise the scale and contributes to a Pontiac "wide track" look. Other models with similar dimensions include the CMW 1957 Chrysler and Athearn 1958 Plymouth Wagon and Cadillac. The Pontiac model looks natural next to these. However, next to a CMW 1961 Impala one questions the scale, especially viewing from above. Here is a front view photo showing relative size of the Pontiac and Praline Cadillac. pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/autorail87/detail?.dir=8203&.dnm=e869.jpg&.src=phIf a Matchbox #39 Pontiac is being purchased for conversion to a scale model, I suggest study of eBay photos to see whether the windshield rake and height are acceptable. My recollection of the windshield was that it is too tall ( Actually it was my sister's toy. The windshield had a large chip missing.) Respectfully, Dave
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skunk
87thScale addict
5th B-day
Posts: 2,762
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Post by skunk on Mar 30, 2005 5:31:56 GMT 1
While I am not adding anything to this discussion, I just wanted to say I am enjoying following it - I like people who take their scale seriously. And I am not being facetious either!
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Mar 30, 2005 6:27:09 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
Like I stated before,in the 1960's Matchbox were scaled toys - as some people here would call them. Even the whellbase were accurate. By the 1970's,as they were battling Mattel's Hot Wheels,the scale issue was left to go. At the 1980's and 1990's these were scaled again and by now except for the Superfast these are mostly aberrations now.
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Post by DavidJohnson on Mar 30, 2005 17:55:08 GMT 1
As we are on topic of scale of US automobiles from Matchbox, I have measurements here for the #54 Cadillac S&S ambulance. Also, a request for dimensions of the #27 Cadillac Sixty Special and the 1959 Ford Station Wagon.
In the list of Matchbox posted on this site the #54 Cadillac S&S Ambulance is listed as 1/87, however the dimensions do not prove it out. Model dimensions are compared here to the Busch Praline 1959 Cadillac. The Matchbox #54 is based on a 1964 Cadillac so the prototypes should have similar dimensions, except that length and wheelbase could be stretched for ambulance service. Using width to determine scale the #54 Matchbox is about 1/78. Maybe a typo?
All dimensions in inches, measured to 0.01. Multiply by 25.4 to convert to mm.
wheelbase #54 Matchbox 1.73 Busch Praline 1.48
overall length #54 Matchbox 2.80 Busch Praline 2.65
width #54 Matchbox 1.05 Busch Praline 0.94
Does anyone have the Matchbox #27 (1958) Cadillac Sixty Special or the (1959) Ford Station wagon? I think both are about 1/80 scale, by regardless I am interested in knowing the dimension.
thankyou, Dave
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