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Post by cfesmire on Mar 20, 2004 16:47:50 GMT 1
And you would need a building permit and a construction loan for the hanger.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on May 15, 2004 6:36:59 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
I am trying to shoot for it,so there it goes:
It is known that trains were created before road vehicles and transport were always regulated by either government and another interests. Consequently, the British had a fleet of steam buses running by the 1830's but other interests took these out of the business,and no self-propeled road vehicle would be seen at these islands for the next sixty years. Now it is a battle between rail ( who loses money) and road transport ( who may became a loser with the new gas prices). In all, transportation is a very important issue no matter where you are.
On the model world, as the trains appeared,so did their first miniature renderings. Of course, the choices will be the toys or accurate models and as anyone would know by now, the technology to make models accurate. The same thing is true about model road vehicles: as the real things were running at the streets, toys and models of these were avaliable.
It is interesting to notice that factories and big industrial concerns were the ones who could produce a good amount of toys or models; yet,at several cases, the wishes of the collectors plus very talented modelers did teached this big concerns a thing or two. As I remember from an article from Automobile Quarterly, this modeler did figured out how to stop the crumbling of the wire wheels from the classic cars ( it was a fact some time ago) and Corgi adopted his pressigers to their models.It happened several times; today,even with the computer generating drawings, the modeler is still the most important element on a creation of a miniature- after all,this individual will translate the drawings to a three-dimensional finished product and there were several who just could produce fantastic miniatures outside of the big concerns.
Transportation either created technology or adopted it; this is another fact. Time was when no elements of a miniature could not be modeled either because the technology was not there or due to another circumstances. It is the reason why so models are called 'crude'. Of course, the molds of a miniature are expensive; hence, the cost of these had to be recovered somehow and in the case of toys.some details are avoided all togheter in order to keep them affordable. Yet,some of these can be quite detailed too.
On of the things about 1/87 scale was the fact that the costumers- from the trains- demanded accurate scaling. Before NMRA, who set the standards for train modeling, a miniature could be billed as HO, but as it was bought, it was either to small or too big and not compatible with the acessories and equipment that was avaliable from other manufacturers.All this changed, and as a matter of fact,if NMRA does not approve what a manufacturer claims, the modelers avoid it.
Of course,at times, the train modelers did not cared if their road vehicles were in proportion or not. But manufacturers of the vehicles did, and the art froms known as Wiking,Herpa,Busch and Brekina appeared. And, if ones park a Caprice close to a Volkswagen, will notice the differences between the two vehicles. Again, early models will be called as either 'simple' or 'crude', but that were technological innovations at the time of their introduction. Further, I see nothing wrong about Wiking's Chevy truck from the 1950's- even the suspension is reproduced there! The other factors are the materials involved. Metal can be detailed so much;and early plastics were very fragile or did warped with age. New technologies such as laser printing are giving toys details that were even expected ten years ago, and now there is the talk of Brekina's models with dashboard details. The Dodge Monaco from Busch has a very detailed interior,but these no much is visible on the dashboard; on the other hand,Monogram's AC Cobra has Glove Compartment details!
Miniaturization happened on stages;again,in this case,as technology allowed. For trains,'O' gauge (circa 1/48 scale) was considered as smal it can get at the first years of the last century; and N-Gauge (1/160 scale) was introduced at the end of the 1950's. HO was first tried before WWII. A 1/1000 scale car was modeled,and it even has a motor!
On the 1/87 models case, it was noticed that kids who likes computers do like to model train dioramas; hence,Faller did had a good ideia to create their 'powered' vehicle line; this makes a very realistic diorama in all aspects of the word. Alas, the smallest remote control cars that debuted a couple of years ago- 1/64 scale,but the problem is that these do not reproduce any type of particular model- are runaway sellers at all eBays ( toy section). Incidentally, a Kenworth tractor/trailer is also avaliable, and this is the type that one sticks the antenna on it and it will run without cords; this vehicle is HO. Cars will graduate next.
It was discussed that newer hobbies are taking over. True, but if as I been observing, there is a 'powered' craze going on, and if the HO will embrace this, it may became a very respected scale among the other ones who offer these advantage. In all, the thing with this scale is dual: high detail and quality, the cars are to scale, but they are a potential problem to children and some adults avoid these as well. However, what may them recognizable was the fact that a litlle model has so much detail,at times with no much enhacament needed. And now,with Brekina's dashboard details,this scale is taking another leap foward in terms of quality and use of technology.
What lays in the future of 1/87 scale? It is a difficult question, but in all,for the moment, it seems very promising because interesting models were promised or debuted and again,the big landmark of these models- detailing- is getting them apart again. Add the powered vehicles, and one has a very interesting choice to consider. Also add the kits and their huge variety and time will be that 1/87 will have more variety than either 1/43 or 1/64. If other land vehicles are added, then this scale is far away in terms of vehicle variety.
Thank you, Nick K
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Aug 16, 2004 6:56:12 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
Main topics over 87thinfo:
1.As it appeared in 2002,it was a portal to the this hobby and its list of miniatures,which is still under development,added a remarkable view of the 1/87th scale. Few books or magazines have such an extensive literature as this site.
2.The messageboard allowed other people to either add information or general comments about this scale,and that pratically doubled the amount of info avaliable about this subject.Not only that,with some articles about new models (and these are being discoverd at all moments) plus anothers that are vitually unknown makes the amount of data to be extensive indeed.
3.Or there is the Vault,where others can input their knowledge about obscure sides of this hobby.All in all,as it happens at the other scales,not very known manufacturers did models at this scales and/or subjects were molded by manufacturers who are not an HO manufacturer eg Minichamps.
4.Since this site has this much to be checked,100,000 visitors did gave a read to it and at the messageboard the number of topics is beyond 300 or so.Not only that,this site is being known at other reference sources,including MAR (Model Auto Review) and most of its comments are on the positive side.
5.The collection of 1/87 cars is a very small affair;1/64 and 1/43 scales fare better.Technically,HO vehicles other than trains are intended to be put on train layouts as vehicles for train site A or B or at best,Diorama X or Y. Historically, NMRA created the standards for model trains;companies like Wiking,Herpa,Busch and Rietze made the standards for the model cars.And some of the smaller companies such as Brekina are the forefront of vehicle detail.Or take Roco,which offers a good selection of Military vehicles.And so it goes,making the prospective collector of this scale with a good variety of subjects -and that without the model trains!
6.This site also covered the artisans (the equivalent,at 1/43 scale,of the white model manufacturers).These are not found at any other reference,and these were the people who,say,could not find a model of a Dodge Diplomat,did reproduce it,generally in either plaster (as RCB) or resin (as SMCC).Some think that solid-cast models are step backward at this hobby,but that depends how well the final product will be excuted.On the other hand,there are 'irregularities' from Major Manufacturers,such EKO and New Ray,but these can be corrected.
Note:RCB or SMCC never offered a model of a Diplomat.These were used as an example what kind of material the use at the manufacture of their models.
7.It is going right now,even at the traditional scale of 1/25: the argument of kits which can be created to be something unique or built models,which anyone has.Also,this site has an extensive amount of data about the technical side of the hobby from resin manufacture to wheels and color of windows.Not only that,but there are also commentaries and photos about manufactured vehicles that were modified in order to look better and/or create a different model.This is an interesting view;at the magazines that deal with models,articles about diecasting were written as well.It is very useful data,specially when something happens with your favorite model.
8.As history goes,on the model and toy front,these were made as technology permited.But some creative people were so talented that managed to teach the big companies a trick or two.And with modern conveniences such as laser printing and photo etching,even fifty cent toys can have lots of details.Other discussion involves the future of this hobby and most of the views been positive despite of closing of shops and the lack of interest of the kids.However,it is said that as much things change,the more they stay the same.And,at all,in terms of hobbies,there is an amount of change going on.Only the future can tell what may happen.Another thing to pay attention to is the fact that cars are considered the enemy now a days,with no good results t either toy or model hobby.
9.The off-topic section is giving this site more strenght over the others,because 1/43/1/64 and 1/72 scales are being discussed.These scales have not a place to list the models as this one; they will deditcate either to a someone's colection of... or a brand.Hence,at all,this is a good ideia and still does not deviate from the HO car community.Further,Model Power,which is Playart sucessor (the latter was a 1/64 scale manufacturer) and Ricko (which is an 1/18 scale modeler) is offering 1/87 models,albeit diecasted.And this trend seems to be going further and in the process,interesting models are popping out.As a small note,manufacturers of non 1/87 cars did,and do offered an extensive amount of HO cars,trucks and even buses.And some of these,such as Norscot,stay tuned to their specialty (the latter offers construction vehicles in several scales).Some like Minichamps,tried this scale for a small amount of time while others,such as Matchbox,reproduces a compatible vehicle at a time or another.
10.In all,this site is the equivalent of several encyclopedias on models and on several scales,but its major concern is 1/87,and at this point,the job was and still is done brilliantly,specially at sub-category of subjects or the extensive and still under construction 'Manufacturer's list'And since people are noticing all this,that means the job is being very well done.As it was stated before,the next turn is to see the hobby to survive.
11.Model Railroaders support the big grunt of this hobby,and at the past NMRA made it uniform in terms of scale.The input of technology was already mentioned above.Other thing to remember is what is currently going,and what I mean is:trains had their golden age from the 1950's until 1960's;slot cars were popular until the early 1970's and then it was the video game turn.All in all,in the process,new technologies are created and a hobby that is supposed to be dying is the overall winner.As an example,microprocessors made Loco sounds and the vehicle itself very realistic,and now these are creating a generation of self-proppeling 1/87 vehicles.More will be seen in the future.
12.In terns of vehicles,one can see examples of European cars,East European,American,Asian and some Australian;the same goes for trucks and Buses.And this site discussed about different badged vehicles,so projects are in order to unveil Brazilian,Indian and even Mexican Vehicles.If the trains are added.1/87 is becoming an international instituition.indeed.
As a conclusion,four people had a very brilliant ideia when they created this site.Most of comments about 87th info and the 1/87th car hobby was covered above,plus a tad of history so it can be understood why,where and how this activity happened.Now,only the future can tell what comes next.
Nick K
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Lee
Senior Member
Posts: 1,899
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Post by Lee on Aug 17, 2004 6:11:07 GMT 1
Nick, What you said in your last two postings is all very true, but I feel that you failed to cover one very important point. The friendship and fellowship among the worldwide membership of this website is growing and blooming at a very fast rate. Not only are we able to share thoughts, ideas and whats new with each other, we are able to share the actual models themselfs. We can see by the various postings in other threads the amount of help that is going on between the members. I for one wish to thank all those members that have helped me obtain the previously unobtainables that I now have. Just for an example, I have had in my collection for months now four different colors of the Audi 6 that is still not yet available in the United States. The local hobbyshop owners think they may, and I mean may, be available this fall. Then there are the members like Mark who offered out of production, hard to find, models to the members at his cost instead of putting up for bid on ebay. That, my friend, just blew me out of the water. Yes, I think that you may have overlooked one very important point of this website. In fact it may turn out to be the most important part of this website. Thanks again, each and every one of you, for helping to make this what it has become.
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Post by cfesmire on Aug 17, 2004 12:39:05 GMT 1
Lee, Amen
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Aug 18, 2004 4:26:49 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
In all,very interesting input,and in this case-the fellowship among the members- have also deep historical significance.
Jon Norbert,the gentleman who ran autofanatics,a major model car shop,noted the Los Angeles is a town which live on wheels,but few people were interested at his articles (he opened his first shop at the early 1970's;he closed his fourth and last one in 1997 because he wanted to settle in Florida.He passed away in 1998; currently,Burbank House of Hobbies are close to what his store had). All in all,he store was a meeting point for collectors and despite the fact that he never had the ad of a computer,he was known on three continents.Other detail: he choose to run this store instead of becoming a lawyer.His parents never supported him at this activity.
There are at least three Matchbox big sites at the Internet besides the Mattel one.One of the best ones was created by a Pakistani,and indeed,at that country,Matchboxes are scarce items-and expensive.His family did not supported him on this activity,too but he was persistent and not only he has a big collection (7500 items) but his site is an enormous help,including me.See,when Mattel took over,the boxed items were moved to the background but were produced,anyway,but Mattel's posters that replaced regular catalogs did not mentioned what the boxed items were.By 2003,these are Rest of the World editions and not sold in the US.His site cleared that problem,and now Mattel's site covers the Rest of the World Matchboxes
In the US,before NMRA the train modeler was a lone individual.Not only he was look upon with scrutiny by family and friends,but he also had to 'improvise' as much as possible in order to keep his layout running.And,as the car collector today,there is another thing a collector has to contend: domestic authority and at times that can be nasty so the general recommendation is: be sincere to your bride-to be.This way,before one enters the portals of marriage.......................
When I came to this country in 1979,lists for model or toy vehicles were almost non-existent and I quickly learned about Alzema's book from 1967.MAR covered the gap by 1982,but these were for recent issues.Slowly,but surely,thanks to authors like Charlie Mack,they appeared.And now,these are everywere,and thanks to the Internet,even more so.At the first years in here.most of the persons I knew did not knew what Wiking,Herpa or even Majorette were;thanks to Autofanatics,I met some people that could chat about these issues.
Hence,the Clubs and sites with Messageboards.One meets the people who shares the same interests and fellowships are made.Luckly,at this site,most of the posting members are very nice fellows and this is the reason that besides the literary info -which also is important,because one understands and transportation and modeling is - the fellowship is so important.Not only that,people gave nice counceling how to put their models in good shape or had models that do not come to this country shipped from fellows from another countries.
The main point is that collecting is at times a very lonely activity;if one lives on a third world country,even more so.Eric here created a site that not only had the tons of data,but atracted,specially at the messageboard people who share the same interest as me or Lee,Marc or Chester.This is one of the fundamental reasons why this friendships originated.I also know that on Clubs or other messageborads can at times source of conflicts but not at this one,fortunately.Amen to that.
Now,the final topic: probably eBay did it,but one should admit that toys or models are hot items.I never saw Playart or Majorette to be sold at prices that I saw at eBay.Or some of the Wikings.
But,from the mid-1990's on,a new figure penetrated the collecting scene:the scalper (i.e,an individual who knows-or artifically makes them because people want them-what a hot model or toy item is). Hot Wheels were doing their treasure series,and sure enough,a scalper would have one of these and for ten or more times the price.I also knew this store close to the Van Nuys Toys R Us that had,at the proper price,the items that one 'could not find' at the retail store.They quit doing that around two years ago because complains against scalper were sky high and some stores just invited them to go out of the store.At eBay,one things that call my attention is:when something very desirable is sold at low prices,the most agressive bidders have four-digit feedback ratings;that suggest a very high volume seller rather than buyer.Hence.Mark's attitude when he sold that SMCC's are very commendable.Perhaps he does not like scalpers,either.
One of the most interesting models that was made scarce was the 1999 edition Volkswagen Transpoter from Matchbox.Impossible to find- the blisterpacked one - .I did,eventually,closed my eyes and got it.Burbank House of Hobies had a list of 173 people for the boxed one,including me.But I was the last one and Mattel canceled the order.I got the last laugh:the President from the company I worked at gave me the boxed edition (thanks to eBay).When a toy show dealer heard of that he asked where I got it.I just smiled.
So,yes,kudos to the friendship at this site.Even so,the thng to remember is that collectors are special people that despite of the disaproval of family and friends,they are keeping a good part of history alive at their shelfs.And the friendships that happened at this site or elsewhere that deals with this hobby are helping to preserve history further.
Thank you to all of you,
Nick K
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BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
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Post by BillC on Aug 21, 2004 3:30:41 GMT 1
Lee:
As far as I know right now, the Busch Audi A6 in CMD form should be among the final releases for the year (probably about October). Standard model will probably be a 2005 release.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Dec 28, 2004 7:07:07 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
As 2004 is coming to an end, one has to ask how good - or bad - it was for our hobby.
As the German model show was in progress at the begginig of this year, the general question was: how many models will debut ? Or 2004 will be as quiet as the last year?
The show ended and the news were good: Busch was releasing a host of interesting models,along with Norev and other smaller manufacturers. Brekina also did launch a surprise by offering a vehicle that had a superb dashboard detail. And the Chevrolet Impala from CMW was considered a fantastic piece. Either way one looked, interesting models were avaliable.
That was the factor that made this year even more interesting: the announcements or releases of manufacturers as 2004 went by. Model Power had a line of very interesting cars besides their truck lines. Of course, these were Hongwell products, but some of the vehicles would not be sold under the Schuco brand. Promotex also released a series of very simple cars, but some of them as the 1955 Cadillac, was worth the while. And of course, Busch Toyota 4x4 and GMC bus were nice additions to the hobby and their promo made Audi was a piece to have.
Without a shadow of a doubt, these news were of interest as well: Ricko - the 1/18 scale manufacturer - announced that they would mold a line of 1/87 vehicles as well. At first,it was thought that these would have a Hongwell connection, but that was not the case and some of the Vehicles, such as the Lancia,Lamborghinis, Alfa Romeos and Maserati are very interesting offerings and made our scale even richer. New Ray offered a semi trailer that if worked on, it will look quite decent and Greg's garage molded a host of vehicles that were not avaliable at our scale before and was commented that some of these are not this realistic,but hey, at least they are trying. Likewise, SAI's offerings of Peugeot vehicles was very well received and so was the ones which were offered by Norev.
One of the biggest issues about the hobby is the fact that most of the large manufacturers are promo makers and a model will not be done if a manufacturer will not order a large amount of these. It was explained that a couple of models were issued without these specifications. As an outside analyst pointed out, the hobby is going towards specialized models and it seems that our scale is not exception. The makers of SMCC are back again making models of vehicles that no one is bothering to mold under the name of Cutter's; and Joe (superba) is also offering all kind of models that no one would want to touch, specially Mopars,Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles.
Athearn also did not rested on its laurels and offered a series of new Macks which are seldom seem in our scale and/or are made by specialty modelers. And it kept going like this all year long.
Based on what as shown above, it is quite obvious that this year was not a static one; many interesting and exciting miniatures and kits were offered. Also,it was discovered this year, but was issued sometime ago, but there exists a MCI bus in 1/87 also, with 'Greyhound' markings on it.It was issued as promo for that bus agency. One of our members is also molding Polish cars - Syrenas,Warzawas,the like, and their Star truck (which was own by IH once). On the same hand, some more East German cars were avaliable, and the company who was molding these also offered some other nice German vehicles. The new model thread with its 20 page lenght is a proof that this year was in fact a very rich one in terms of models issued or announced to be released. Classic names,such as Bub also re-appered and one of our members let us know that BDB will be back as well and this company had a whole set of very interesting kits such as the Facel Vega. And Woodland Scenics also wants release a whole series of cars for 2005.
It was a general annoucement at the beggining of the year that a new manufacturer would release a new line of vehicles for 2004. Well, Ricko,New Ray,Model Power,Promotex did fit the bill because did came with new vehicles to anyone's big surprise. Granted,Promotex issues were toy-ish, but some of them were quite well made. Another surprise came from this manufacturer of diecast trucks in 1/50 scale: they announced that they will mold 1/87 scale trucks.
As it can be seen, 2004 was very exciting indeed. Is quite probable that 2005 will also be as exciting as the news are coming by.
In conclusion, 2004 will be considered a very good year for our hobby.
Thank you,
Nick K
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