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Post by cny187 on May 9, 2008 12:42:18 GMT 1
You fellas are really unbelievable. You should be grateful that these guys are making these models. If they didn't who would? Appreciate what you are able to buy. If you want something better, well BillC has thrown out the figures for you. Go down to your bank and ask for some financing, I'm sure they will be willing to hand it right over to you...
And if the picture of the models look like toys compared to the real thing, well, thats because THEY ARE "TOYS". THERE NOT REAL CARS!!
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Ed
Apprentice
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Post by Ed on May 9, 2008 15:01:51 GMT 1
I understand the concerns regarding the Ford's roofline, but it may just be, as Bill said, the camera angle. It looks dead-on right when I look at the rear quarter panel.
I am extremely grateful that a company is willing to invest capital in niche projects like this. If I had millions of dollars of disposable income, I'd try my hand at it, but these days I am happy just to put gas into my car.
I think that dimensional differences are easier to detect as the scale of any item is decreased. I will continue to pre-order and buy Masterpiece and Main Street products that are within my collecting time period. The quality of the offerings are excellent values for the price.
Ed
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Post by DavidJohnson on May 9, 2008 18:07:39 GMT 1
I share the opinion that the roof of the Ford appears compressed.
I think most of the apparent problem with the roof is camera angle. The camera is barely above the plane of the roof. We can see the top of the hood and our minds want to see the top of the roof, however the angle is so low it disappears in reflections. The roof shape is easiest to see on the photo of the white model. Still, it appears to me that the door headers are too low, giving the side windows a compressed appearance.
I would much rather have the model than to delay for a long time or drive the price up by chasing perfection, especially in what is intended as a right priced model for model rail use. I have the blue Ford (and green Plymouth) on preorder and will purchase a few more as more colors become available.
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BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
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Post by BillC on May 9, 2008 20:29:42 GMT 1
There is a problem with the Ford's roofline; the greenhouse does need to be a couple of scale inches taller. Unfortunately, while we were able to change some things, fixing the roofline would have meant all-new tooling, which would have driven the price beyond where it needed to be. So we were faced with either cancelling the model or doing what we could to improve it.
We have gone back to making a real tooling model for all new projects, even though that will add to the development cost and raise the price of future models slightly. This will allow us to catch this type of problem before the tools are cut. The Ford and Plymouth went straight from CAD to tooling and sometimes it is difficult to see errors in CAD images.
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Post by RAOlson on May 9, 2008 20:37:11 GMT 1
These cars look great and will fill a void in the model railroader's needs as well as our collections. I applaud Bill C’s, Atlas’ and Masterpiece’s efforts for producing these vehicles. The Plymouth is incredible and I can’t wait to get some. The Ford is great and captures the overall look of the car, but IMHO there is a problem with the rear door/window frame to roof relation, albeit the height looks accurate. The rear door/window corner appears to be squared-off on the model and does not follow the contour of the roofline. Compare: www.atlasrr.com/Images/Cars/Masterpiece/1007/99087222_TQ.jpgwww.tntclassiccars.com/100_0738.jpg www.tntclassiccars.com/1970%20FORD%20CUSTOM.htmlIt’s also hard to decipher the model photo, but the rear quarter-panel under the C-pillar/window does not look quite right, as the rear door window flows upwards, yet the body line does not follow it entirely. This is just my critique of the model, but I will, and have, purchased models with far greater issues. Must be my addiction to 1/87th scale vehicles! Richard O. |
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Post by Christian on May 9, 2008 22:08:03 GMT 1
I think part of the frustration stems from the fact that the times of accepting everything are over, especially when considering the numbers Bill quoted above. Unlike Malibu models for a buck these are not cheap and therefore have to stand up to close scrutineering. Models will of course always be flawed - the question is how badly. Luckily Masterpiece has been very responsive to flaws that were pointed out.
That said, I think the Ford Custom is a good model. Too bad about the roof, but this little episode certainly leads to even better models in the future.
On a different matter I applaud the choice of prototypically correct wheels for the Dodge Journey. While I understand the tendency to oversized wheels I am not a friend of this development.
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Post by Sylvain on May 9, 2008 22:53:35 GMT 1
For my part, I like them both. There is maybe a problem with the roof line of the Ford, but I think the Plymouth looks better than before. The former one seemed a little to high on wheels on the rear, if you see what I mean.
They're less detailed models than the other Masterpiece's models, but it was known from the beginning of this project it seemed to me, so it's no surprise. I've already pre-ordered one of each, but do you know when they will be available? Sorry if it has been asked before, I may not have seen the answer.
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BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
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Post by BillC on May 9, 2008 23:55:17 GMT 1
The Plymouth, which has received final approval from Chrysler, is in production now. We have been waiting almost a month for approval from Ford but hope to have it next week. Once it is received, it will immediately go into production. We hope to ship these models by the end of the month.
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Post by cfesmire on May 10, 2008 2:37:57 GMT 1
I think part of the frustration stems from the fact that the times of accepting everything are over, especially when considering the numbers Bill quoted above. Unlike Malibu models for a buck these are not cheap and therefore have to stand up to close scrutineering. Models will of course always be flawed - the question is how badly. Luckily Masterpiece has been very responsive to flaws that were pointed out. That said, I think the Ford Custom is a good model. Too bad about the roof, but this little episode certainly leads to even better models in the future. This couldn't have been said better. We've come to expect near perfection with a lot of the recent vehicles available and have all been guilty of picking nits. Have we become spoiled? To some extent I believe, but this is certainly a welcome situation to be in considering the alternative. I like the look of the Ford in spite of a minor flaw and the Plymouth is terrific. |
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Ricko
Junior Member
Posts: 126
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Post by Ricko on May 10, 2008 5:53:45 GMT 1
Starmada,
Make all of them in Ricko, we shall charge you less than $200,000 (a quarter of the cost Bill provided) for 12 high class top models. We can help in licencing, distribution worldwide, insurance, etc. 10-15 years ago, German might spend $60,000 to produce a set of tooling. However, this story was over as you will not get return from investment in this scale.
It will definitely be a good news for the HO friends to have 12 more models! Go ahead to start with us!
Ricko
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Post by only87 on May 10, 2008 6:19:28 GMT 1
If they didn't who would? Probably me or some other fellow in about 2016 in resin. And I know what I can do in resin, that's where my judgement begins. I do not think I have to be too thankful for each and every model coming out by one of the big players, after all they do money out of it, its not all just out of good will. That being said, I'm not frustrated at all by the Ford`coming out, I'm a bit frustrated by the fact that that I won't be able to keep the printings which would have been nice, especially if I buy a product by a company giving a bit of a promise by calling themselves "Masterpiece". I have no intent of putting down a product unless I am overwhelmed with disgust, but I will try to honest and straight forward with my criticism as long as I have the feeling that it may actually be of any concern to anyone here. I like the Plymouth a lot, it's not perfect (what is?) but I will buy severeral of those. I have some reservations about the Ford although I would like to buy several of those. I think it is only fair to point out why I won't buy as many of the Ford as I will of the Plymouths. If nobody wants to hear about that, well, nobody has to listen to the "grinch". |
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Post by only87 on May 10, 2008 6:24:40 GMT 1
.... and it's not the camera angle, no no. But as I said, the colors may seem a bit diffused by the lighting, BillC's comment about the models being painted kinda destroyed my point of the cheap plastic, raises my hopes for the final production models.
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Post by only87 on May 10, 2008 6:50:18 GMT 1
We have gone back to making a real tooling model for all new projects, even though that will add to the development cost and raise the price of future models slightly. This will allow us to catch this type of problem before the tools are cut. The Ford and Plymouth went straight from CAD to tooling and sometimes it is difficult to see errors in CAD images. Although I do not fully understand the technical aspect of that comment I'm happy to hear about Masterpiece's concern here. Models in our scale will probably always have the one or other flaw we'll have to live with, like slightly mishaped wheel-arches, thick mirrors, out of scale steering wheels, overbright chrome.. or so, but I always buy several if I like the prototype and the general impression seems right. And sometimes you do even have to boost a detail out of scale to make the general impression right. |
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BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
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Post by BillC on May 10, 2008 8:10:03 GMT 1
My original comment was, "Plan on investing $50,000 or more per model for development, tooling, licensing, production and shipping of initial inventory."
If Ricko's going to charge $16,667 for all that, it's an extremely good price. I'd take them up on it, if I were you.
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jeffh
Junior Member
Posts: 120
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Post by jeffh on May 10, 2008 10:04:39 GMT 1
Given the number of members of this forum and their burning desire to see their favourite 1:1 models in 1:87, the economics of $16,667 per model become very interesting if even just 10 members agree on a favourite model and contribute to a central fund for the devleopment thereof in 1:87.
I foresee a plethora of polls coming on.
jeffh
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