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Post by superba on Dec 28, 2007 14:50:31 GMT 1
Nick: Another nail in the Crown Vic's coffin. The new Standard Taxi. Looks like full production will start in 2009. Price point is about 25K. Production will be contracted to AM General in South Bend Indiana Think about the concept here for a second. A Checker replacement, being assembled by a former AMC division in the old Studebaker Truck plant! www.standardtaxi.com/AM General Connection www.standardtaxi.com/documents/Issue_11.htm
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Post by Cor_DutchArt on Dec 28, 2007 19:50:12 GMT 1
Not by Lego (Duplo) ?
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stanhas87
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1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
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Post by stanhas87 on Dec 28, 2007 20:05:06 GMT 1
Dear Joe:
That Ugly thing? Minus well make the ugliest car I know - Toyota Echo and most of the Japanese cars - as a cab!!! At least, the Checker had class as compared with that thing, and the Vic is by far more beautiful than that.
Oh, well. I will retract to my corner and wait for 2012 to come by. The Interceptor which was found by Jack's friend is a reality and will be mine by mid-January, and by becoming my dayly car, will give my Aries the rest it really needed. The Monaco was grabbed by a Police Car Collector.
Thanks for all of the updates; (and I hating the new Car Industry even more - as I said before, my era of faves ends in 1989, when the final Diplomat left the assembly line; so my upcoming Rail Empire will be between 1959-1989 era) now I know what to (long sigh) expect.
Nick K
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Post by superba on Dec 29, 2007 2:28:41 GMT 1
Oh boy is it ugly. The 1947 Checker looked like a cross between a 41 Cadillac and Chevrolet. The 1956 Checker had hints of the early 50's Packard.
The Standard Taxi looks like a cross between a Hummer and a Grumman Postal Van!! Its not very pleasing.
It may be ugly, but if you get behind the engineering its purely utilitarian in purpose and construction. Reversable doors, bumpers and window frames will reduce the cost of construction, maintenance and inventory costs.
Body on frame construction, flat glass and flat floors all meet the needs of a purpose built taxi for both ambulatory or handicapped passengers.
Compare the cramped seating, low roof and floor pans lower than the frame rails of a new Crown Vic or the high 80K price tag of new Carbodies London Cab and the new Standard appears to be exactly that the new standard.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Dec 29, 2007 6:50:22 GMT 1
Dear Joe:
Hm, sorry, sorry, I am not buying it. The design could had been more atractive and practical, as was the 1947 De Soto or the Checker A8 or A12 (and I will flatly state the both are a Classic, beautiful design; so is the Vic). Is worth to state that the 1940's Sotos were soldeiring away in Istambul in the late 1980's as public Taxis. Very tired to see vehicles designed as appliances, as the Russians, Japanese and Koreans do. Good thing I am not a major Taxi rider.
Nick K
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Post by superba on Dec 29, 2007 16:55:29 GMT 1
Nick: Are you suggesting that a Checker or DeSoto's of the 1940's and 1950's are viable taxi's in the 21st Century? Checker developed several replacements as recently as the early 80's only to exit the taxi market as a whole because the high cost to develop a new taxi (see attached) was not worth the risk of ruining Checker's larger third party automotive OEM business. Had Checker continued manufacturing taxicabs, these vehicles would have been just as ugly as the new Standard. Reversable body panels, flat glass and body panels devoid of any compound curves. The overall US taxi market....about 5000 cars a years alone can't sustain the development of truely beautiful car with flowing lines and curves. Purpose built taxis are typically build for business not pleasure thus they are not expected to be beautiful. Taxicabs are workhorse vehicles that typically are run into the ground in less than three years. If they get banged up on the job, Taxi garages need to be able to slap them together ASAP and get them back on the road. Body panels are typically bolt on to reduce the effort required to repair. DeSoto cabs were not purpose built cabs by Chrysler. The famous DeSoto Skyway cabs were produced by James Waters, Inc in a third party plant outside of Detroit. They were discontinued in 1953 because the cost to produce was very high and Taxi operators demanded smaller more cost effective units. DeSotos were derived off of the same platform that produced Dodge, Chryslers and Plymouth cars. DeSoto served a dual purpose, they had to be more attractive since the majority of their customers expected modern lines and some level of attractiveness. It's not very fair to compare the DeSoto to the Standard since DeSoto sold between 50,000 to 100,000 cars a year to retail consumers. Taxicab production at Waters amounted to 200 to 300 units. DeSoto main buisness was to sell automoblies to retail consumer buyers, not Taxicabs
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on Dec 29, 2007 18:40:02 GMT 1
Dear Joe:
I am just stating a fact about the De Sotos which whitstood time in Istambul, Turkey and I consider them more beautiful than the aberration shown above, that is all.I do not see them, with the high fuel prices, as a 21st Century Cabs, just more elegant. Checkers were also purpose built and I would like more something like that as a cab. Their panels were easy to replace, they were confy and so on and looked by far better. That was my point besides my tireness of appliance-looking items. If that will be the next cab, so be it, but do not expect me to want to ride it, as I refuse to ride the Toyota Prius which are own by Checker Cab. As I been saying, just my points of view.
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stanhas87
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1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
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Post by stanhas87 on May 24, 2008 3:43:50 GMT 1
Dear All:
The numbers are quite sobering: Crown Vic sales are down 24% and the Gran Marquis, 47%, which may make them eligible for an early retirement. Good thing that I already got my Police Interceptor Unit and I just love it; I can undesrtan why the cop also prefer it.
I hope that its retirement date is still somewhere on 2010. I am not any crazy about the Impala (as I heard, neither are the cops) and only half-warmed along the Charger. I also read that Chrysler is also have problems on sales because their cars are considered 'big'. Is like the early 1980's all over again.
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BillC
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Post by BillC on May 25, 2008 14:09:03 GMT 1
Sorry, Nick, but the real numbers don't offer much comfort for you.
The Impala is GM's best-selling car and it was it's second-best-selling vehicle both in April and for the first four months of 2008. Sales are down about 9.6% this year. Sounds like a bunch but the average drop for all GM vehicles is 25.9% so the Impala is way ahead.
Sales of the Charger were up 29.5% in April and are just 2.3% behind 2007 in year-to-date sales. So far this year, it's Chrysler's second-best-selling car, about 117 sales behind the Caliber, and fifth-best-selling vehicle, behind the Ram pickup, Dodge Caravan, Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Caliber.
The Charger's primary obstacle in the police market is that it's priced higher than the Crown Vic and Impala. The cops I have talked to like it.
I assume the Crown Vic will remain in production through 2010, though Alan Mullaly's recent statements hint that the end might come sooner. Ford has revised its sales forecast downward for the rest of 2008 and said it won't be profitable in 2009, even though the company had promised profitability next year as recently as a month ago. Mullaly said the company will be looking at new cuts in capacity and production, moving the company toward the products which are selling and away from those that aren't. Don't forget the Ford CVPI sales aren't all that profitable because they are government fleet sales and the majority are low-bid opportunities meaning the margin is low. Ford must balance what it is getting from the CVPI and Marquis against what it costs to keep the assembly line running.
I am sure Ford is giving very serious consideration as to what it is going to do with the Crown Vic/Taurus market. The combined sales of the CV and Taurus don't equal the sales of the Impala or the Charger, not a good sign. In fact, the Impala has gotten twice as many sales as the CV/Taurus in the first four months of 2008. The Charger was 2500 sales ahead of the two Ford cars in April.
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stanhas87
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1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on May 25, 2008 14:54:55 GMT 1
Dear Bill:
Thank you for the input. Contrary to my first love, the 1977 - 1978 Dodge Monaco, the Crown Vic has a long History and been around for a good while, and I already grabbed mine, a beautiful white on white 2004 Police Interceptor (I have to be careful where I drive it; sometimes even Cops think I am one of them), and that was not a City Police Unit. At least I will cross my fingers and hope the Vic goes with a bang, as the Caprice, Roadmaster and Brougham did.
Yeah, an era on American Car History came to an end.
Oh, by the way: how about the Town Car? What is the scoop on that?
Thank you one more time,
Nick K
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BillC
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Post by BillC on May 25, 2008 16:21:19 GMT 1
Town Car sales are way down; off 46.8% in April and 64.8% for the first four months of the year. While it's a favorite of limousine operators, NYC's Taxi and Limousine Commission has instituted new requirements for "black cars" the Town Car can't meet. The new rules, which include a minimum city mileage rating of 25 mpg as of January 1, 2009 and 30 mpg on January 1, 2010 pretty well kill that market.
To put Town Car sales in perspective, Ford has sold 5,412 so far this year. That's less than half the number of Cadillac DTSs GM has moved. In April, the Town Car was outsold by the DTS and Lexus LS 460 and was only 201 sales ahead of the Mercedes S-Class. The S-Class is actually 1,159 sales ahead of the Lincoln in year-to-date sales and the BMW 7-Series is only 139 sales behind the Town Car, even though the high-end premium car market is getting hammered, too. Basically, the consumer market has largely moved on beyond the Town Car to newer, more prestigious brands. The Town Car is now being sold mostly to fleet operators, like limousine and professional car conversion companies and rental companies. Since the Crown Vic is now built only for police/taxi sales, that leaves the Grand Marquis as the only full-size Ford sold primarily to consumers. And just 11,106 Grand Marquis have found new homes this year.
With gas prices rising, it's hard to see a bright future for the platform. Ford can develop a brand-new car for what it would cost to bring the Panther platform into the 21st Century and I just can't see them making a big car that would hurt their ability to meet the upcoming EPA standards.
So, whether it's in 2009 or 2010, the writing would seem to be on the wall for Ford's antique. Of course, this situation is nothing new for Ford; the original Model T was kept in production for years after the competition had passed it by and Chevrolet was outselling the Tin Lizzie for a few years before old Henry finally realized the party was over. Ford almost went bankrupt because of it and a failure to field competitive subsequent products put Ford behind GM and Chrysler from the mid-1930s until Chrysler made the same mistake in the early 1950s and let K.T. Keller dictate styling.
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stanhas87
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Post by stanhas87 on May 26, 2008 0:18:59 GMT 1
Dear Bill:
Thanks one more time. I will keep following the upcoming news on the trio now that these figures been given.
Nick K
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skunk
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Post by skunk on May 28, 2008 10:00:27 GMT 1
Thanks BillC for the info re the NYC TLC's new mileage laws. These will have an impact way beyond the NY limos alone: As the old Town Cars are retired in NYC, they are picked up by shoestring operators in the boroughs and in New Jersey, who run them with zero maintenance for another ten years or so. These smoke belching battleships waddle around all over NY on out of state plates, with bald tires and no shocks. It would be great to see the supply of Town Cars finally dry up for them.
No more Crown Vics will truly mean the end of an era. For the NYC taxi scene, it will be similar to the end of the Checker. Nick is right, it's the early eighties all over again: Economy crashing, inflation, Detroit is going bankrupt. It doesn't get any malaisier.
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stanhas87
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1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
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Post by stanhas87 on May 28, 2008 16:56:41 GMT 1
Dear All:
That remainds me: on the last Auto Show, the chatty Lincoln PR Lady told me that as Ford transfered Town Car's production to Canada. they wanted to produce only 5000 of these vehicles per year. So, I assume that a 5400 sales is within the parameters that Ford spedified for this car.
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BillC
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Post by BillC on May 29, 2008 3:18:03 GMT 1
Yes, but Ford wanted to produce far more than that number of full-size cars when they consolidated production of the Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis and Town Car into a single factory. With the huge declines in volume and the huge rebates Ford is having to pay out to move them, it's difficult to see a business case for continuing production for much longer.
You need to remember the rules just changed again at Ford. Perhaps you didn't see it, but Ford has revised downward their production for the rest of the year and now admits there likely won't be a recovery at all in 2008. They also said they won't be profitable in 2009. They are cutting another 10-12% of their white-collar staff and this time there won't be any buyouts or early retirement options. I figure it's just a matter of time before they start announcing cuts in their vehicle line-up and perhaps even shut down Mercury, which has been on the ropes for years.
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