stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 20, 2005 16:10:17 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
I do still think that GM should go back to its past practices when each division had is own identity and one could tell a Buick from a Pontiac and so on. When they were doing that, they had more than half of the market.
Globally, Buick is a very known brand and was always considered a manufacturer of good cars, as their earlier logos stated. Recently, a Buick from the 1940's ran a rally that was murder even for 4x4's without any problems; I do not know how it finished.
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skunk
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Post by skunk on Apr 20, 2005 20:06:24 GMT 1
True, Buick would be hard to kill off because of the Chinese connection. How to capitalize on that in the US, currently very interested in Kung-Fu flicks and other aspects of Chinese pop-culture? Maybe Pagoda style roofs? Their new SUV could be called "Great Wall of Buick".
Hell, import some Chinese management, those guys seem to know what they are doing!
About the Saturn v Buick dispute: Saturn style pricing, no-haggling, courteous salesmen etc, could probably have been introduced without creating new cars. In Japan, car companies have several separate sales networks for their cars: You dont buy a car from Honda, you buy it from Primo, Clio or Verno.
So why not sell Buicks and Chevys through a second, "Saturn", sales network that operates on those (admirable) Saturn principles? Buying a Saturn was always about the buying process, never ever about the car. Why couldnt Geo have done exactly what GM did with Saturn? Instead they wasted gazillions, creating and killing off the Geo brand, missed by no one. After all, most Saturn buyers dont care a whit about which car they're buying, so why invest all that money in developing a new (but still uncompetitive) car?
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 20, 2005 21:06:06 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
It is to be seen what will happen in the future. Personally, I am tired of the underpowered front-drivers that clogs GM's line-ups. Create something better for Christ sakes.
To my eyes, some of the Saturns did looked like the Oldsmobile. Skunk is right about the no-haggle policies of the division. Right now, their product line is a tad more extensive with the addition of a SUV and mini van. The Sky concept may spark some charm to it.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 21, 2005 17:52:24 GMT 1
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skunk
87thScale addict
5th B-day
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Post by skunk on Apr 22, 2005 19:20:12 GMT 1
That is the Chinese Chevy Aveo - it is a Korean (Daewoo) car built by SAIC in Shanghai for the domestic Chinese market. GM is only tenously linked with this through an SAIC joint-venture project.
But, if the Chevy badge becomes popular in China, too, then GM will have a pretty strong position there.
Of course, I cannot imagine that China will allow their country to have a negative automotive trading balance, so I do not know just how much money there will be to be made by outside manufacturers. All of the joint ventures are beginning to end and thousands of indigenously developed cars are appearing. The new Chang'an SUV looks very competent, and should begin to worry at least the Koreans.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Apr 22, 2005 19:34:56 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
According to the Autoindex site,the Chinese have a massive amount of vehicle manufacturers. More than the US,Japan and Korea put toghether!
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Lee
Senior Member
Posts: 1,899
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Post by Lee on May 14, 2005 0:51:16 GMT 1
I saw in the paper this week that Wall Street dropped both GMC and Ford to junk bond ratings. Someone greasing the skids?
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skunk
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Post by skunk on May 14, 2005 3:02:17 GMT 1
And I read in Financial Times or somesuch publication that investors are expecting the demise of not only Buick, but of Pontiac and Saab as well.
Apparently, GM was hoping to escape their huge "legacy costs" (pension payments to a huge number of ex-employees,hard to cover since GM has shrunk so much since their salad days) by running on idle, so to speak, until some of their ex-employees died off.
Sadly, the plan has backfired, because once GM stopped investing in new models their business kept on diminishing. So now they are stuck in a downward spiral, with a market share shrinking ever faster than their retirement and healthcare obligations.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on May 14, 2005 4:57:40 GMT 1
And I read in Financial Times or somesuch publication that investors are expecting the demise of not only Buick, but of Pontiac and Saab as well. Apparently, GM was hoping to escape their huge "legacy costs" (pension payments to a huge number of ex-employees,hard to cover since GM has shrunk so much since their salad days) by running on idle, so to speak, until some of their ex-employees died off. Sadly, the plan has backfired, because once GM stopped investing in new models their business kept on diminishing. So now they are stuck in a downward spiral, with a market share shrinking ever faster than their retirement and healthcare obligations. Dear Sirs: And then,it will happen: a stinky body with disatrous consequences because its death. Be as it may,GM is huge, and its death will be a big disaster.
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BillC
87thScale addict
Posts: 2,541
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Post by BillC on May 17, 2005 0:06:42 GMT 1
Wall Street is blaming GM for not cutting enough; GM is blaming the unions and pension and health care costs. Nobody seems to be facing up to the fact that GM's real problem is that their management sucks and has for well over a decade.
GM would not be facing difficulties with pension or healthcare costs if they were selling cars and light trucks in the volume they need. They would be selling cars and trucks if they hadn't spent so many years making them as cheaply as possible and avoiding investments in new technology.
They would also be selling cars and trucks if their vehicles didn't look like they were styled by the same clever people who brought us the camel.
They also wouldn't be hurting so bad now if they had not put all their hopes in large, truck-based SUVs, believing the craze would last forever. They completely neglected their car line for years, leaving the largest segment of the new vehicle market to their competitors.
Of course, they would also have more money if they had not gotten entangled with Fiat.
These were all management decisions. And all bad ones. Yet no senior executive at GM is forgoing their salary or has been forced out in penniless ignominy.
As I have said before, it is silly to think jettisoning Buick, or any other division, would help GM. If it would, GM's fortunes should have improved after they shut down Oldsmobile. They didn't. I am pretty sure none of the analysts or executives who keep talking about dumping Buick have considered this.
Try dumping Wagoner, Lutz, Cowger and a few others.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on May 17, 2005 2:00:22 GMT 1
Dear Sirs:
I know that I will get screamed at but it was not very wise to dump Oldsmobile; it just,to my view,worsened things. At all, GM has a huge line of SUV's (literally,all sizes and shapes) but Ford is the one who is smiling all the way to the Bank with its F-150. Goes without saying that they dumped lines of cars (such as the Caprice/Impala) in order to build more SUV's! Bill may correct me on that but as I heard, the Rear-drive Brougham sold in more quantities than they front drive models, yet it was dumped anyway.I always kept wondering who was at the helm of these decisions; now that I know who I agree do evict them and not Olds,Buick or whichever.
To be quite frank, I do feel sorry for GM. I truly did liked their Buick and Olds divisions and for me is a shock to witness what is going on with these. This is the direct consequence of very,very bad decisions.
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