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Post by mazwoolley on Dec 23, 2014 12:21:51 GMT 1
MAR 282 is now online at www.zeteo.com. If any of you guys fancies seeing more 1/87 scale items in there why not write an article or just send me pictures and facts about your models fro me to work up into one. I am especially interested in info on artisan/small scale production 1:87 scale that a wider readership would never see. No-one is paid for writing for MAR you just have the satisfaction of informing others and widening our hobby. Just use the contact us button on the website if you fancy giving it a try. I would love to see more 1:87 articles in 2015. Maz
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Post by hemicuda on Dec 25, 2014 22:20:45 GMT 1
I have never corresponded with this man, but he has a small company making batch quantities of 3D models and has been doing it consistently for a few years now. www.jahn3d.de/
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Post by mazwoolley on Dec 28, 2014 12:32:13 GMT 1
thanks for the information. Websiteis very interesting. Post to UK much too expensive to buy one to look and see what they are like. Plus the Web site they use for sales only sells them in all white not pre coloured. But it probably shows what the future will bring for small volume production. May well follow this up.
Thanks
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Post by only87 on Dec 28, 2014 19:15:40 GMT 1
If someone cares for my opinion, I've already read too much about these Jahn3D models. All he does is making mere Christmas ornaments from 3D data that is freely available to everyone logged to the internet. Generally, printing resolution for colored prints is not suitable for 1/87 scale yet, and for non-colored prints the Jahn3D quality is outdated to say the least. The car models have all been downloaded from the internet and refurbished a bit to make them printable, but the work has been minimal. I'm not trying to bash Jahn3D, but the service they provide seems a bit loveless for someone who's got a bit of insight. I've got just about all of the 3D data on my computer, everything that he uses, could make them printable fairly easy, put them up in the Shapeways shop and sell them in a better printing resolution for a lower price while still making a bunch of money. But I wouldn't. Because I don't think it would be a good investment for any collector. The oily, pixelated printouts won't stand the test of time, they will be outdated fairly soon. And for making master models for other proven conncepts like resin casting there are much better ways than using the Jahn3D services. Another one like Jahn3d is www.a2models.nl. But at least they're also using their models for novelty purposes (like USB sticks) and didn't just download stuff from the internet (but scanned old Dinkys). They also offer different scales, and as archtectural models the printed cars might work rather well. And they've got a shop, not just monthly PDF's that don't even show the product.
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Post by only87 on Dec 28, 2014 19:27:33 GMT 1
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Post by mazwoolley on Jan 1, 2015 17:39:40 GMT 1
I had a good look and concluded that the models were basic for the price and not as good as stoney mountain or other solid resin. Given that neo 1:87 is being sold off for 14 Euros I decided to buy a couple of those instead.
For the moment I can see 3d printing going strong in accessory making, for modifying models with different grilles and maybe for making masters from public data. I think we will need to move on a couple of generations of equipment before printing will reach the detail, speed, and cost needed for them to catch up with injection moulding or even resin castings.
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Post by hemicuda on Jan 2, 2015 2:52:58 GMT 1
My interest is that they come out with models that will most likely never released in 1/87 scale. I have never bought anything in 3D, but I have read they are delicate. I could see a use for them for a niche market like special effects or architectural layouts, or to re-enact accident scenes for court cases using actual models , or something like that. Collecting? I am not so sure how well 3d models will hold up. I see Jens company mentioned on 1-87 vehicle club from time to time in the 'new product' section which is why I mentioned it for a possible article for someone to write about.
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Post by only87 on Jan 2, 2015 6:12:44 GMT 1
I concur that its about models that will probably never realeased elsewhere. In the long run, 3D printing will spark a completely new industry with completely new rules concerning batch production. More improvements will have a deep impact on how we see data compared to real products. Trading data will become more and more important. I believe you can compare that to the changes in the music industry over the last two decades. You don't have to browse through thrift stores and garage sales to search for an obscure record anymore, you can just download it on Amazon or another place. The same will happen to model collecting, it already does, Jahn3D is one example. But the quality is still questionable, we're only in the "Atari" age, or the early "mp3" age. The point of showing my Dodge Monaco was to show that making your own models is already possible. You don't have to rely on someone like Jahn3D, at least if you put a bit of time into acquiring a basic 3D data managing skillset. To me, and I'm not the brightest bulb, Jahn3D is already a dinosaur. And acquiring those skills will be even easier and more accessible in five years. More and more people will jump the bandwagon and the possibilities will reveal themselves more and more as progress continues. Cottage manufacturing will flurish and there will be a heyday of variety and obscure models available. Readily made or as raw data. Over the last year, I've combed the internet for free 3D car models and downloaded about 500 different models thet aren't available in 1/87 as of yet. All of those can be converted to a printable file with a bit of effort and I plan to do so on many and release them as small production resin kits. I'm sure that a lot of other people will have the same thought, especially if things will get more accesible. I'm not sure if collecting the prints will be the way to go or if those will only serve as master models for further processing. Time will tell. But I'm confident that in a few years you'll have plenty to chose from, no matter what kind of collecting or modelling you're into.
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Post by mazwoolley on Jan 2, 2015 22:20:59 GMT 1
I agree that we are likely to see a cottage industry growing up supplying data files for all sorts of things. Then as the technology matures and crucially gets cheaper 3d printing will grow rapidly. Printers may even develop gloss coating facilities and will print at such small detail that layering will vanish. In the meantime it will get good enough to make masters which can be worked on to produce resin models.
But those data files will drive the uptake. It won't be enough to use raw data collectors will expect a set of parts to easily assemble into a finished model and that takes skilled manipulation of the data to create a printable kit.
I think that with time the modelling world will be revolutionised its just it will be a while before it has fully developed its potential.
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Post by mazwoolley on Jan 2, 2015 22:22:16 GMT 1
I agree that we are likely to see a cottage industry growing up supplying data files for all sorts of things. Then as the technology matures and crucially gets cheaper 3d printing will grow rapidly. Printers may even develop gloss coating facilities and will print at such small detail that layering will vanish. In the meantime it will get good enough to make masters which can be worked on to produce resin models.
But those data files will drive the uptake. It won't be enough to use raw data collectors will expect a set of parts to easily assemble into a finished model and that takes skilled manipulation of the data to create a printable kit.
I think that with time the modelling world will be revolutionised its just it will be a while before it has fully developed its potential.
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Post by hovehicle on Jan 3, 2015 2:50:53 GMT 1
Jens' 3D models are not too bad when you consider proportion and the amazing variety that he has. The problem is with the layering and how bad it looks on the "glass". Clear glass with smooth surfaces would be a tremendous improvement. Many of these models could be used for parking lots and heavy traffic scenes. They don't need interiors because of this.
I have not bought any yet because I need to see the above mentioned improvement, not only on the glass, but the whole vehicle. 3D technology seems close, but it has a long way to go in my opinion.
Vito L.
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Post by only87 on Jan 3, 2015 8:04:22 GMT 1
They aren't too bad and I can see that they can be used on parking lots and in the background. But the "amazing variety" and the proportions is the thing that ticks me off a bit because Jahn3D cannot take credit or merit for it, but they do, and they're making good money off it while doing so. And considering that, they're not actually bringing a lot to the table. That is at lest my personal opinion. The models are, as I said, taken from the Internet and they are freely available. Most of them can be found at www.3dcadbrowser.com and the Sketchup 3D warehouse. The thing is, many of the models on 3dcadbrowser don't give royalties or even credit to the original creator or to whoever is holding the rights. Most of the American models originate from the Viewpoint 3D model catalogue, which is a few years old but still can be bought for around 600 Dollars. All of the models on 3dcadbrowser and the 3D warehouse are uploaded by private persons, many of them are original but most are taken from other sources disrespecting ownership, like the Viewpoint source. All of the 3D warehouse models are freely available for non-comercial use unless permitted by the owner. Many of them also originate from other sources. I don't know if Jahn3D is asking for permissions or paying royalties but given the rapid growth of their program and that they just "slap" pictures in a PDF I have my doubts. I'm not trying to be too moralistic about it, it fits the times we live in, I'm also not giving proper credits and it's certainly not easy to track down the original ownership. But I wanted to mention it at least because it shouldn't be completely disregarded. The proportions aren't half bad because the original data is good, but with a better printing process those good proportions would be maintained even better. I just don't get the hype, because just about everything Jahn3D does, someone else does better or with more care. And concerning the variety, I'm fairly sure that someone else will also exploit what is freely available soon enough. And with better printing possibilities, these models will probably be of more use than for backyard parking lots, paperweigts or as pumice stones. It is my personal opinion and everybody is entitled to his own, but if you'll buy one and actually try to make something out of it, you'll soon find the limitations. It can be done, and a few skilled modelers make great models out of those. But it's hard and other ways are much more feasible. You can find a few of the models already in the Shapeways shop, others will emerge and in a few years time Jahn3D will be completely obsolete.
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Post by Sabuu on Jan 13, 2015 8:29:32 GMT 1
I don't know if this is what you are referring to, but Jahn himself is apparently also selling his models through the Shapeways channel nowadays, look for the shop "madaboutcars" on the Shapeways website. I wonder if these models are better looking than the ones he is selling on his own website
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Post by Sabuu on Jan 14, 2015 21:39:00 GMT 1
I ordered a few models, just to find out what they look like...
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Post by mazwoolley on Jan 18, 2015 17:01:03 GMT 1
Well let us know. Perhaps even send me some photographs and an assessment to allow me to create an article about this in MAR Online.
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