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Post by only87 on Jun 10, 2014 0:38:07 GMT 1
I've actually just researched the '56 for the first time. I'm a car nut, but it does nothing for me, a pompous giant rollerskate. I just don't see why (diecast) model manufacturers (especially in this scale) don't seem to be able to do more than just reproducing each and every car that Sinatra owned over and over again. The '60 was done by Dinky and I bet a few people could relate to it trough that as well, and it has more styling elements than a loaf of bread. That may sound very subjective, but I just don't see the point of reproducing a high-end luxury vehicle that made a statement by elegance and quality as a cheap chinese diecast model soaked in thick paint and chrome. A good choice for a 1/18 scale model doesn't automatically make it a good choice for 1/87 because it doesn't translate the same way and the buyers aren't the same either. Ricko's 300SL might have made money for them, but it certainly didn't build them a future. 1/87 is perfect for small spaces, big collections and the fun in it is detail, color and prints, a strong argument the affordable prices. 1/87 could give 1/43 a run for its money if done properly. And it is even girlfriend-friendly, they seldomly agree to large collections of 1/43 scale models. But every time I show something to the girls I know they're amazed by the detail. The subject matter doesn't do much for them, but the jewelery like approach does. And you can buy a model not spending all the money you had to take her out to dinner.
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Post by hovehicle on Jun 10, 2014 3:24:29 GMT 1
This is a good discussion and I wonder sometime why there is so much stupidity in this scale also. Why hasn't a 1990's Mustang been produced in HO? Are they that ugly in design where not even one manufacturer can even consider it? Even the 1980's was represented by Herpa, crude by today's standards, but still a good Mustang.
And another thing, has any manufacturer ever heard of Pontiac, Buick or Oldsmobile? How about doing some of those makes from the 1970's and 1980's. I guess Neo will get my business, because that's the only HO company out there that does NOT seem to repeat another companies models. I'm sick of duplicity, and I'd rather spend 35.00 for a quality, new HO resin model than 15.00 for a duplicate model, period.
Of course I'm talking about cars here; if RPS wants to join the fun and make some cars from the 1960's-today we'll all be better off!
Vito L.
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Post by Cor_DutchArt on Jun 10, 2014 7:35:04 GMT 1
I fully agree with you guys. I also like te spend more mony for a perfect model instead of buying every Herpa or Brekina model. Wonder when there will appear racing cars for my Ferrari and Ecury Ecosse transporters.
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Post by swampdaddy on Jun 10, 2014 16:46:10 GMT 1
As model car collectors we sometimes focus too narrowly. The volume market is driven mostly by the purchases of model railroaders who far outnumber model car collectors and also by children who purchase 1/87 Hot Wheels, Model Power and similar high volume 1/87 vehicles too. So, it's easy to see why everyone has done and will do 60's Mustangs and in Europe different Mercedes models, etc. Certain models appeal past model car collectors and offer the maker a better chance to make money via sales to model railroaders and the younger set. And, often I whine about why there aren't more Packard models in 1/87. I've noted with interest the M2 line of 1/64 models which offer many models not available in any other scale. I sure wish they'd duplicate them in 1/87; but, I am sure they've checked the market and what segments they can make money in. This is certainly why many of our craftsmen offer the odd models in resin that the high volume maker probably will never touch. I am a model railroader and I purchase "most" automobiles for use next to the trains. The area were I am mostly a collector are the many nice HO scale buses in colorful schemes, mostly European makes that will never be on the layout but which I like. I am more into cars these days as I have more locomotives and train rolling stock than I can ever use or even display; so, I now concentrate on the details such as cars, structures, lights, etc. that I never worried about when I was purchasing that next (expensive) HO scale locomotive. I doubt the market will ever fully satisfy us as car collectors unless we are willing to paint and detail the offerings of the hobby manufacturers. My skill level on HO scale painting is such that now I prefer prepainted from the factory models I can simply place on the layout or in a display cabinent. have fun, Swamp Daddy
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Post by DavidJohnson on Jun 11, 2014 5:07:04 GMT 1
Good discussion here.
With the Oxford offerings I have appreciated the use of prototype colors. This was generally not offered in the Model Power line of diecast vehicles, aside from generic black, white, and red. For example, they used the same shade of blue for multiple vehicles and generally it is too intense.
For me the most interesting new announcement is the 57 Mercury. The Mustang is of interest only if it represents and improvement in form and color. Luxury cars are of lower interest to me because too many would look unatural in my model railroad setting.
Dave
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Post by Sylvain on Jun 11, 2014 10:05:06 GMT 1
Well, I don’t know, but for my part, I wonder if this kind of discussion is really useful. Forums are full of them, year after year, and what do we see here? A fourth version of the '56 or '57 Continental, a fourth version of the '64 Mustang convertible…
Even for someone like me, who likes a lot the Continental, it seems pointless, as so far no model is really better than the other one. The new ones shine just more than the older ones. Same thing with the Mustang. So I have two Continenal (Wiking's Continental is a '56 and Model Power Continental is a '57) and the Mustang convertible by Busch. I don't need more.
Collectors keep on complaining about this lack of originality of manufacturers, but every year we have the same bad surprises. At least you can say that Oxford is new to our scale. But look at what's happening with the last french cars made by well established manufacturers? Herpa just look at what Editions Atlas did with Universal Hobbies to do the same, and Wiking and Brekina have opened a stupid war about the Renault R4. And each time, is one model really better than what it competes with? No.
For now on, I prefer to concentrate on the good surprises. Last year, the '58 Edsel and the '41 Lincoln were very good surprises, when the '56 T-Bird and the '49 Mercury were bad ones. Well, this year the '57 Mercury and the '63 Lincoln will be the good surprises. I'll buy them, even if I don’t care much about Kennedy’s Lincoln, and will conscientiously forget the two others.
And give my money to craftsmen or small companies. They took risks and need to be supported and encouraged.
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jim68cuda
Junior Member
It takes a Mopar to Catch a Mopar
Posts: 224
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Post by jim68cuda on Jun 11, 2014 19:04:53 GMT 1
The 57 Mercury is an interesting surprize, but it will be the only one of this new group that I will be buying. I already have the Eko, Wiking, and Model Power 56-57 Lincoln Continentals, and the Busch and Wiking 1965 Mustang convertibles. I passed on the Model Power 1965 Mustang convertible as it looked very toy-like compared to the Busch and Wiking versions. That said, I hope that Oxford is using the Model Power Molds for those two so they won't loose money on them due to lack of interest. The Kennedy Lincoln death car is a strange choice. I don't see it finding a home on very many train layouts. Its market is limited to 1/87 scale vehicle collectors, and because the original is a one off, no one will want more than one in their collection. Once they've sold a few, there is not much that can be done with the mold. They can't even re-release it in a different color to attract more sales. I already have a stock 63 Lincoln convertible by Ricko. With that in mind, there is no point in getting one of these Kennedy Lincolns to cut down to modify into a stock version. Its a real shame they didn't just make a stock Lincoln sedan. I like that Oxford is venturing into the 1960's with the announcement of the new cars. I really hope they make some interesting 1/87 scale 1960's cars that have not been done before. If they continue with the "Ford" theme for their future releases, I would hope that some day they would consider a 65 T-bird convertible (not a sports roadster), a 63 Mercury Colony Park wagon, a 66 Country Squire wagon, a 63 Galaxie XL hardtop, a 67 Ranchero 500 XL, a 67-68 Mercury Cougar and maybe a 68 Mercury Cyclone GT fastback and a 1960 Ford Starliner hardtop.
As for Schuco using the Model Power molds, well, I guess I'll get the El Camino in white, since white was available on 68 El Caminos. I really wish they didn't put the wrong stripes on it though. As for the Cuda in lime green, it would have been nice, but who blacks out a "shaker" hood? I'll pass on that one. The Olds 4-4-2 was Not available in orange in 1969. I'll pass on that one. I might get the blue Camaro convertible though. The Model Power 63 T-bird was available in red white and black. Scuco is doing white with a red roof. The red roof spoils it for me. No thanks. If they had done white with a flat black roof, it might have looked like a vinyl top 63 Thunderbird Landau. So far, it appears that Schuco has no interest in making the cars look factory.
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Post by Cor_DutchArt on Jun 11, 2014 20:01:36 GMT 1
I think that one of the differences between the European and American collectors is that the American guys want to buy large numbers for their railroad layouts and the Europeans collects car models for the models. That might also be the reason of the differences in price and detailling. So it's hard to get a discussion of what "we" want. "We" basically wants different things I guess. Yes, the Kennedy Lincoln will also be a "one of" in my collection (next to the 3D puzzle) and maybe as a gadget on my train layout. But most of my models are "one of's" No problem, there are so many collectors in Europe.
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Post by mstar on Jun 11, 2014 21:21:37 GMT 1
Actually I can't imagine Oxford using Model Power tools for the Continental as the models from Oxford look very different than the ones from Model Power. Painted lights for example. So I guess it will be a new mould.
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Post by Christian on Jul 13, 2014 21:27:01 GMT 1
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Post by ensemble187 on Jul 14, 2014 13:54:51 GMT 1
Christian,
Thanks for the update. The news is very interesting. However, I must admit that it is frustrating to see popular Asian prototypes produced as key chains but not as 1:87 scale replicas. So many in Autoart' s portfolio have the potential to make great HO scale models.
Autoart, if you're reading this, we would be very appreciative if you consider producing your Toyota and Scion models as true replicas (i.e., with interiors, rolling wheels, etc.).
Tony F.
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Post by hovehicle on Jul 15, 2014 1:39:52 GMT 1
Autoart, I'm with Tony; I don't need key chains for any reason, but if you made an actual diecast or plastic HO model fully assembled I'd buy a few for sure. I always buy more than 1 color of a model if it's looks just right. Just a thought, I'd love a modern Toyota or Scion Xb, for example.
Vito L.
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rck
Apprentice
Posts: 32
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Post by rck on Jul 25, 2014 12:27:00 GMT 1
Neo Scale Models delivered the 1976 Chrysler Town&Country in two colors mo87.de
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Post by halfasskustoms on Jul 27, 2014 12:35:03 GMT 1
Oh yeah, that station wagon is real kool lookin. I likes. Thanks for the heads up.
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stanhas87
87thScale addict
1978 Dodge Monaco CHP
Posts: 4,906
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Post by stanhas87 on Jul 28, 2014 2:26:40 GMT 1
Dear All:
Vito mentioned that he wants vehicles from 1980's and 1990's made in 1/87.I want the Saint Regis,Neoplan AN440 Transit Bus,Dodge Diplomat and the 1970's Chryslers in this scale (at least NEO came with the 1976 Chrysler Wagon) among others,but that mean anything? Not really.
One of the reasons why the specialty modellers came out on the market (such as Brooklin,among others) was because the High-end manufacturers would not touch on some models who were desired for lets say a few individuals and since the number of sales could be considered low (who would want a miniature of a Saint Regis? 10,20,50 people?) they would not risk doing it.
Duplication as I can see exists in all scales.There always be the model of the Mustang,Camaro,Corvette no matter were you look at.At times,some of the manufacturers would make these first in order to take a risk on models which would not sell this many units.I myself,am tired of the constant duplication and when a new maker comes on board - you guessed - Camaros,Corvettes,bloated Luxury cars and so on.On 1/87 scale,I saw the big whooha of 2005,2006 to get down and down and still did not recovered much.Equally,most of the scales are being affected by this downturn,albeit interesting models are being released (I have a list of many unique models which popped out on the last 4 years - problem is,they are not in 1/87 and maybe would not be good sellers if they were made in this scale;one of them tough,I thing would sell good: this Company,Arko Products,released a 1958 Ford Fairlane 4-door in 1/32 scale on civilian and Police versions - this one I would see as a winner on HO.But this is my opinion;perhaps would be not) and on a way,the trend towards unique models cars is getting greater and greater,because,as mentioned,Oxford Diecast will release the Lincoln Presidential Car in 1/87;hence,even them are following this trend.
Will get better? Most of the comments point that the clinetele for Auto or Vehicle models is diminishing and perhaps this is why all these factors are at play.
This is my opinion.I always say the if they come (the ones I want) I will get them.Somebody,please,give a Neoplan AN440 Transit Bus!!!
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